ANOTHER LOOK AT MEGACHURCHES
I have read Ed Christian's stimulating book on music and his Review articles with interest and appreciation. Time will tell if he is right in his most recent column about the potential for Adventist megachurches ("Why Don't Adventists Grow Megachurches?" Oct. 16, 2003). It is already obvious, however, that he does not know some of the passionate-for-souls-Adventist-lifestyle-liberals I know. I'm sure he'll meet some of them before long though, because they are actively giving their all to planting churches--even megachurches--with confidence that God is disappointed when we do not attempt large things through faith in what He can do and will do. They are attempting large things--even demanding large things--because they have a passion for souls and absolute faith in what God can do when they are surrendered to Him.

Some of them are church planting specialists who through study, research, and experience have learned more about church growth dynamics than either he or I have.

I'm sorry some of their potential helpers and supporters may be prejudiced by the doubts expressed in Christian's column and fueled by suggestions that all Adventist liberals who attempt large things are the same and will have the same outcome. In the end I'm sure God will honor the faith and courage of the Calebs and Joshuas in the church planting movement.

I'll keep reading. I expect there will be wonderful developments to report and read about.

Patricia Hart, associate pastor
Scottsdale, Arizona


Thank you for the column about "megachurches." Ed Christian presented some good observations. However, his article was more of an introduction to the subject, and more data and analysis are needed.

If you have a continuing interest in the subject I suggest you add the Sacramento Central Seventh-day Adventist Church to your list of "growing churches" to watch. Because of Doug Batchelor's pastorship of this church and his association with Amazing Facts (http://www.amazingfacts.org/) and its evangelistic programs, the church recently voted to relocate to a different area of the city where it hopes to establish a new church with a 3,000-member capacity. He wants to accommodate more persons at the Amazing Facts televised services than can be served in the existing 1,200-person sanctuary with its small car parking lot. The new plan is to acquire or build a larger facility with ample parking, in the belief that televised services and programs (i.e., Sabbath School classes) will attract larger numbers. The emphasis of the evangelism and church expansion is targeted at non-Adventists--Christians and non-Christians--through a "media ministry."

Another factor in the absence of Adventist megachurches may be the opposition to them in principle found in some of Ellen G. White's counsels.

Also, I am concerned about the operational definitions for the terms "conservative" and "liberal." It seems that they have been abused, especially by leaders of social forces such as "talk radio" that are reported to be driven by notoriety-based audience ratings. I suggest that the use of expressions such as "lifestyle liberals" requires care in the definition of the terms before they are used. As I hear and see the terms "conservative" and "liberal" used in various contexts, I perceive urgent need for analysis of the definitions and then proceeding from consensus. The currently accepted operational definitions certainly are significantly different from the traditional definitions in Western European and North American culture, with what I see are very unfortunate results--in society and within the church. That problem is exacerbated when a congregation is comprised of members who are also predominantly members of one established political party, even when politics is not mentioned in pulpit preaching.

I hope Mr. Christian has colleagues outside of his fields of English and biblical literature with whom to discuss the sociological and theological issues he addressed and the political issues he did not mention.

Lynn Hartzler


I few weeks ago I wrote to compliment Ed Christian on an excellent column in the Review. For the most part, I have appreciated his thought provoking questions, views, and introspection. However, I must take issue with this most recent column about megachurches.

I am a church planter in Colorado Springs. I am a fairly recent convert who was not raised in a Christian home. I was baptized 16 years ago and eight years ago I left a very successful and rewarding career to follow God's leading. Being a pastor is a second career for me.

Neither I nor my wife are lifestyle liberals--no jewelry, no caffeine, nearly vegan, single-income (yet we're still fun and cool)--and we limit leadership in our fledgling church to those sold on the Advent message and a passion to reach the lost. Our church plant is not the result of a church split, but is an intentional effort to reach the unchurched in Colorado Springs--currently 63 percent of the population, or 315,000 people. God has put in our hearts a vision to increase church attendance in Colorado Springs by 1 percent--that is, 5,000 people.

I believe it is because of lowered standards, conflicts, fear, and rebelliousness that many church plants have failed. But that doesn't mean no Adventist church can succeed at being a church of significance in its community. I'm sure there were Israelites in Egypt who thought they'd never be free. And there were 10 spies who preached the same kind of doom that hindered the entering of the Promised Land.

In 1991, I chaired a committee for the State of Oregon. An assessment team from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration told our group that the project we were working on was impossible. We completed the project two years later, and that project is now being duplicated on a national level. I laugh when people tell me something is impossible! Now that I have joined God in this audacious evangelistic project--I have even greater confidence.

I don't believe the Sabbath is a hindrance to reaching the unchurched, even though I have been told that time and time again. This postmodern urban culture is ripe for the Sabbath, the health message, and the Second Coming. According to MSNBC, the most visited Internet web sites (other than porn) are health related. When every major news organization touts the benefits of a weekly sabbatical, why aren't we?

I'm sorry Mr. Christian has so little faith in the latest crop of church planters--or more importantly, with what God is doing through these people. I wish you could have been in Chicago last week when more than 100 Adventist church planters gathered at the Sprout conference. The dedication, spirituality, conviction, and passion of those pastors and lay people is awesome. While the majority of us were from North America, there were several from Norway and Germany--including the Trans-European Division's Ministerial director, Peter Roennfeldt.

Yes, we have planted a lot of 50-70 member churches across North America. And yes, some of our churches have apostatized. But as the church planting movement has matured, we are getting more intentional about what we're doing. We are better prepared to handle the obstacles and snares Satan lays before us. We are a movement that is not only growing in intensity, we are spiritually better prepared to resist the Laodecian mantra and the lures of mediocrity.

Have you visited The Adventure in Greeley, Colorado, or Creek Side Community in Abbottsford, British Columbia? God is doing some amazing things in these churches, and standards are not being compromised and the lost are being reached. Indeed, The Adventure saw more than 50 people baptized last year.

Probably our biggest hindrance to rapid church growth is staffing and funding--issues that Saddleback, Willow Creek, or other "non-affiliated churches" do not face. For more on this subject, may I suggest Lyle Shaller's book, The Very Large Church.

For someone of his stature and education, I was surprised to see so many assumptions manifested in Christian's article. May I suggest he visit the church planting projects in Boise, Seattle, Greeley, St. Louis, and Wichita. I even invite him to visit us here in Colorado Springs, where we are intentionally raising the standards. See what's happening in the Mid-America and North Pacific Unions. I invite your prayers for our success in reaching the lost in ways never before imagined--without lowering our standards. Or just wait and see what develops in the next few years.

Pastor Gary Walter
Common Ground
Colorado Springs, Colorado


I'm sorry, I do not agree with the conclusions in the article, "Why Don't Adventists Grow Megachurches?" I would like to see the author's research in this area.

As a church planter, I am working on my forth new church, I, and many others in the field, have studied this problem in depth. Some of our conclusions based on years of experience and research are as follows:

1. The Sabbath is a very minor deterrent to the unchurched.
2. The vast majority of all church plants, including all faiths, fail or remain small due to poor DNA in the launching group and pastors who stay only a few years.
3. Adventist church plants rarely exceed 150 because we do not understand the need to staff a church for growth.
4. People don't believe we can because we haven't, so we set low expectations and are surprised and make excuses when we hit them.

I am the senior pastor for a project that includes the goal to create the first Seventh-day Adventist megachurch in the Washington Conference. We are building a ministry matrix to bypass the small church stage from the opening service, we are starting with a staff of pastors, and we have a God-sized vision to reach at least 4,000 people in the Seattle Metro area in the next ten years. Will it take a miracle? Yes, thank God it will, as you will find that every megachurch has succeeded only by the miraculous power of God.

It is very discouraging to see our "flagship Adventist magazine" include a column from someone who has not explained his expertise in the church planting or megachurch fields and includes no supporting research to back his conclusions. Perhaps I'll write about the problems I perceive with Liberal Arts education in Pennsylvania and ask that it be published in your magazine.

Pastor Steve Leddy
24/Seven Seventh-day Adventist Ministry Center

STANDARDS OR LACK OF THEM
Thank you for printing the article, "Frogs, Toads, and Church Standards" (Oct. 16, 2003). How very interesting that an article that was first printed "in its original form" in 1989 should have so much relevance now. My church is sadly involved in the very issue that this article addresses--the conflict between the amphibians.

Greg Brothers has presented an insightful understanding of the problem. In my church the "frogs" are in leadership positions and the members who would be classed as "toads" feel that they are no longer of any consequence. Many of them have been attending other area churches just to have their needs met.

Now, however, with the brilliant clarity shown to us by Pastor Brothers, I believe we can recognize the situation for what it really is. This identification will bring understanding and, I hope, a better sense of cooperation between the leadership and the laity. I look forward to having my church whole again!

A Concerned Member
Pennsylvania


Greg Brothers is an entertaining writer and his article, "Frogs and Toads," is supposed to be cute and funny and not to be taken too seriously. But I question the reasoning of the Adventist Review editors for reprinting such a false and misleading picture of the Adventist church.

The early pioneers and evangelists have always taught that our church was to be a hospital for sinners and not a mere country club organization. That is not a new "Times have changed" idea. It is simply not true that all Adventists are divided into two opposing groups that Brothers calls frogs and toads.

In 1989 when this article was first printed it caused a fuss. People did not like to be called toads or frogs. Please, let us not ridicule our early pioneers or call them uncharitable names. Toads! Can you believe our own Review, a magazine that should hold to the biblical standards of morality and Christian courtesy doing this?

The same issue had an excellent article, "Christ or Constantine," that made the point that a marriage between paganism and Christianity was a bad thing. I hope Brothers reads this and changes his mind about having the toads marry the frogs.

I suppose we who believe that the doctrines and standards of Jesus do not change with every wind that blows shouldn't mind that a magazine called us toads. After all Jesus was called all kinds of names because he refused to lower his standard of conduct. Even as a child he was called derogatory names. Ellen White didn't say that He was called a toad she did say: "Jesus was misunderstood by His brothers because He was not like them. His standard was not their standard. . . . Because the life of Jesus condemned evil, He was opposed, both at home and abroad. His unselfishness and integrity were commented on with a sneer. . . . Often He was accused of cowardice for refusing to unite with them in some forbidden act; but His answer was, It is written, "The fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding." Job 28:28.

"There were some who sought His society, feeling at peace in His presence; but many avoided Him, because they were rebuked by His stainless life. . . . They were impatient at His scruples, and pronounced Him narrow and strait-laced. Jesus answered, It is written, "Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to Thy word." "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee." Ps. 119:9, 11." (The Desire of Ages, pp 88-89).

Ed Graves, Sr.
Lake Elsinore, California

TOGETHER AGAIN
Thank you for publishing Bill Knott's editorial, "We Gather, Together" (Oct. 9, 2003). Every word he wrote is true. I have watched this alarming trend grow like a virus since I first joined the church in 1984. We need to wake up and address this issue. Otherwise, in a generation or two there will be no more need for Seventh-day Adventist churches. Most of our youth will have all left the church and we'll be left to wonder, How did this happen? Church schools are no substitute for quality church worship with our youth.

About five years ago, the church I attended stopped having its weekly children's story during divine worship. This alarmed me. So I brought it up in Church Board meeting. I was told they stopped it because they couldn't find enough people willing to do it. I volunteered to do it and recruit others. Then I was told I had to keep the story to three minutes or less, as I was cutting into the pastor's sermon time, which was a priority.

I soon joined a another congregation because I felt so strongly about this issue. They give a little higher priority to children's programs. However, just like the previous church, they limit the children's story to three minutes so the pastor will have as much time as possible to give his sermon.

As a church we need to ask ourselves: If Jesus were to walk into our church this Sabbath, what would His priority be? I believe being with and teaching our children.

Dennis Hendrixson
Beltsville, Maryland


I couldn't agree more with Bill Knott. I've been saying this for years. My daughters were teens during the early stages of the church hiring youth pastors and it was obvious to me then that the "youth pastors" were indeed youth without wisdom to pastor teens just a few years younger than themselves.

At least three couples got divorces. The pastors were just a bit too interested in the young girls who were so wide-eyed and eager to become a pastor's favorite.

But the saddest thing about it is the people in their middle forties that never make a transition to the grown up, mature part of church. I can name and count dozens here in this area where there are lots of Seventh-day Adventist churches and schools. And there is such a sadness when one sees that this is still taking place.

This has been a huge mistake that I hope someone will take a hard look at and try to turn it around.

Alison Agins
Corona, California


This was a very good column. It recognizes an existing condition that few church members give any thought to. I was born and raised on the prairies of North Dakota. My folks attended a small country church until I was 16 years-old when we moved to College Place, Washington.

The little Church my folks attended in North Dakota happened to be a German Church. I sat through the Sabbath school and Worship services and learned what it was like to become a member. I have never been sorry about this experience. I still remember some of the Sabbath school discussions to this day. We sat on hard, wooden benches, and I was present during all the adult services.

At camp meeting I attended the meetings in the adult tent, and today I still remember some of the sermons. I remember sitting in the big tent and listening to Elder Thompson, a powerful speaker. He illustrated how the Sabbath could never be changed. He said that his birthday was on April Fool's Day. All day long the other children laughed at him and teased him! He would come running home after school, slam the back door to the kitchen where his mother was cooking and hide his face in her apron. Crying, he would say say, "Mother, why can't we change my birthday?" She was silent for a moment, and then answered, "Son, we could celebrate your birthday on another day but that wouldn't change the facts."

I was only a child in an adult camp meeting service, but I never forgot that sermon. The atmosphere was thrilling! I still remember the cool summer breezes that ruffled the canvas of that huge tent. The fresh sawdust that covered the floor and delivered a refreshing smell as I listened to the sermon. I was excited as I looked over the vast crowd of people in attendance and the many who were standing on the outside edges of the tent listening. The benches were plain wooden benches but it was a thrilling experience that I will never forget. I learned what it was like to be a member of the adult Seventh-day Adventist Church, and later I was baptized into it.

Percy Wentland
Moses Lake, Washington


Bill Knott seems pretty harsh about separate churches for different age groups. As a college student, I feel I should speak up. He seems to put all the blame on the younger crowd.

We don't necessarily want to worship away from older members. But we enjoy a different style of worship. This is not consumerism or a need for my rights. The older crowd acts the same way by not bending and having more contemporary services. I don't mean getting rid of all of the hymns, but why not have a blended service?

Many who condemn a contemporary style service forget two things: These are my generation's hymns, our songs of praise, that express the way we have experienced God. Many of yesterday's hymns don't speak to the issues we face today as young people. People also forget that many of those hymns were sung to secular music and some churches didn't even sing hymns, they were considered too worldly.

Young people don't want to worship separately. But for years many of the older saints have called my generation's songs of praise, evil and of the devil. Young people are usually more willing to give on this issue, but we are part of this church as well. Instead of blaming young people for separating into their own worship services, maybe the older church members should ask the youth to help plan the services, allowing them to utilize their talents for the Lord, even their musical ones.

P. R. Crouch
Pacific Union College

FAITH AND SCIENCE
In response to the incomplete report of the Faith and Science Conference held at the Glacier View Ranch in Colorado in August 2003 ("Theologians, Scientists Discuss Vital Issues," Oct. 2003):

Many of the views and poll results that were discussed show that there are faculty members at our colleges that do not accept the literal Creation Week of six days. Others stated that they believe that life existed thousands of years before Adam and Eve. But since they do not believe in evolution they are still being paid by the denomination.

The conference had no intention of changing the church's beliefs, but it did give a platform for many that do not subscribe to the fundamentals expressed by General Conference statements. The leadership has said that the church's foundations are not up for discussion, but that is exactly what was discussed. My information is based on discussions with three scientists and two theologians who attended.

I fear for the results of next year's international conference. If the membership had been given a complete report, they would realize that we are heading for serious upheaval, unless leadership takes a firm stand.

Compromise is not possible if the Sabbath is to mean much to our youth, our evangelists, and our future.

What needs to happen?

First: We need to make a stand as far as to qualifications, selection, and retention of college and university board chairpersons, presidents, and science faculty.

Second: We as laity, administrators, and theologians need to decide what we are willing to do about clear rejection of fundamental beliefs.

My concern is that we will not do anything that is effective. If the report by Larry R. Evans had given a full picture of the problems maybe something would happen. Our church is paying to have our youth taught by those that have expressed disbelief in the first 11 chapters of the book of Genesis and our general paper is not giving us a full report.

I worry when the coordinator of the conference is quoted as saying: "There are two sides in the great controversy." Are we too timid to identify clearly with the biblical side?

With faith and reason we will see that all truly scientific facts can fit into the creation model.
Robert L. Horner
Corona, California

MARRIAGE UNDER SIEGE
I was happy to read the clear biblical stand taken on the matter of homosexuality in the editorial, "Biblical Marriage," and Roy Adam's article, "Marriage Under Siege" (Oct. 2003). I hope there will be no wavering when you receive the negative reactions you will certainly receive, not just from chance non-Adventist readers but from within the church.

Our members have been, and continue to be, educated and conditioned by the media mentioned in your writing. Sadly, I believe our values more and more reflect our society rather than inform it. So, your "un-pc" stand is all the more conspicuous. May God give you (and others like you) courage to remain faithful to Him and His Word.

Clyde Morgan