Note: These are
excerpts from interviews with Mark Phillips and Edye Campos that didn't make
it into the print edition of the Adventist Review. Enjoy these Web-only extras!
Kimberly Luste Maran: How is this documentary different from other
things out there?
Edye Campos
(EC): One of the things that impressed me so much about one of the stories
is a comment that Shasta Burr [from the AnchorPointe church in Seattle, Washington]
told us when we were interviewing her (it will give you an idea of the fresh
approach): "the way we define evangelism is bringing a person one step
closer to Christ." It is not taking that person and dunking them in the
water, evangelism is getting them closer to Christianity, getting them closer
to Christ. That is a lot of what this documentary is about, taking the Christian
life and putting it in a perspective that is more positive than what society
has put it in. And that is to bring people a closer step to Christ. People are
going to see the documentary and say "These Christians aren't so bad, they
are real, just like I am. They aren't perfect, they don't claim to be perfect."
They see the struggles of the people we are interviewing and they say, "They
are just like me, I can be a Christian too."
Mark Phillips
(MP): Yeah, that is exactly right on. . . . We don't want to show the polished
Christian life, where everything is OK, we don't have problems because we have
the Lord. No, our life is going to be tougher because we are accountable and
we accept responsibility. Even though it is responsibility we don't want to
have, we have to take it. In a lot of senses we are like Jonah—we just
want to get out of there and God sends the fish and we're swallowed and we've
just got to go where God takes us. That's a goal, a mission, of ours—to
show Christianity in that realistic light, in the suffering. We interviewed
Shasta Burr's husband, Jerry, and he said, "I didn't get a call from God
to be here in Seattle. Shasta was called. I don't even know what it is like
to be called. But I know when God calls somebody else, and if I can help that
person then that's my job." That's gonna be on this documentary. For those
people who've never been ‘called' by God, maybe they're supposed to be
exactly where they are. To be in their corporate office, or wherever they're
working; maybe they're just making copies or whatever, but maybe that is where
God wants them to be. Maybe the Christian life isn't always a super exotic thing.
Small groups, cell churches, you don't see Spielberg doing stuff on them. Basically
we're doing something that the world will say is completely unmarketable. And
we are marketing it.
EC: In business
terms, we've been built for defeat: many 18-35 year-olds are not going to church
and they are the ones who are supposed to buy this. And they are not buying
products like this.
MP: We've
gone and pitched our ideas to church leaders and they tell us: "You can't
sell this." We know this, but there is nothing like this out there. What
do we watch? Mission Spotlight. In Mission Spotlight, when I was growing
up we'd watch what the church was doing in the world and it was fun, it was
entertaining—it was pictures and it was personal. And that is what this
is, this is a mission spotlight, it is another edition for young people.
EC: One of
the things we are trying to do, we want to inspire young people. We want them
to know they don't have to "work" for the church to work for the church.
Another of the goals is that we want people to know that there is a church and
there is a place for them—there is a place for them and their talents in
the church. One of the things that bothers me is that young people . . . have
been "told" there's no room for them. MTV is so successful not because
they have anything wonderful in what they are doing, it is because they were
the first ones to actually say that what they did was for young people. So if
you're a young person, you say: I don't care if it's junk, I'm going to watch
it because it is for me. Young people aren't coming to church because we have
sent a message (albeit an unintentional one) to them: it is not for you. Why?
How much money are we investing in our young people? Not much. The message young
people get, even though it is unintended, is this: you don't matter.
What
do you see for the future?
MP: We want
to show the church that we need to focus more on the arts and young people.
Publishing, television, radio, other media, music . . . need more exposure and
more support because those are the careers young people are going into. What
movies do we have? Where are the stories about the Bible? There are no real
movies on that . . .Young adults are now the largest group of people going to
movies. So if the Adventist church is really serious about putting its message
out there, if Christians really want people to understand, we need to get into
that industry we need to do those type of productions; and that means spending
money wisely. It is spending a lot of money but it is wise spending because
you reach a lot of people.
Anyone in the industry
will tell you that film making is about control. We haven't had any kind of
control. This documentary has basically been done under the gun; we've moved
so many times, from place to place. . . . But it has actually been a good thing.
It has made us organize better, not expecting anything to be easy . . .
EC: I think
about Joseph. God prepared Joseph to rule over Egypt when he was in prison.
It was when he was in dire straits, poverty stricken, that he was being prepared
to be a king. That's the way I see the last few years. It was all preparation.
I truly believe that the day will come when things will change. God takes you
through the desert experience in order to get you to the promised land. That
is when you appreciate the promised land because you've seen the sacrifices
and you don't lose sight of what's important because He was with you when you
were in the desert. Things can change, they can come and go, what makes the
difference and makes it worth it is that Christ remains the same. Whether we're
in the drought or the plenty years, He is the same. . . . We are looking forward
the years of plenty . . . [Laughter.]
Besides
the grant and side jobs, are you getting any other funding?
EC: No. We've
applied to many foundations and have been turned down.
What
advice can you give to other young adults?
EC: Don't
listen to people, only pay attention to what God is telling you. If we would
have listened to other people we would have stopped a long time ago.
MP: We knew
we were going to do "Anyone, Anywhere," but the devil is still working
on us. And even though we have lots of support—from church leaders, friends,
churches—but we still doubt we have support, and that's the devil. Even
when we know we are going to do this project, we still have the feelings that
we are unworthy, that we will be torn down, that we can't do it alone, that
we can't do it with this amount of money, that there's no future in it, there's
no way to market it . . .
EC: Don't
worry. If God is calling you to it, and as long as you remain faithful and do
what He's calling you to, somehow He will take care of you. So many times we
have sat here and wondered how it was all gonna happen. It seemed impossible.
But sure enough, every time, God takes care of us. I know that's a hard thing,
because we still worry. . .
MP: At the
same time, do your homework. A lot of people think that it's just gonna happen.
People think: "Well, I'm a Christian so God's just going to make it happen
for me." You're going to have to know your ministry, know your audience,
know what you're going to do, how you're going to do it, make a list of priorities
and spend a couple years on it. You should give it the same deliberate attention
you would to finding a new job. Give it time, think about it . . . let it seep
in and grow.
EC: Another
piece of advice: do it. If you don't do it, then you will be frustrated, you'll
always wish you had done it. You will always wonder what would have been, or
could have been. And in doing it, a lot of things take care of themselves; but
you've got to be willing to let God take care if it. The biggest step is the
first step. It gets a lot easier after that, it is still hard, because man,
we are still working and working our butts off, but it is easier because once
you see Him match that step and take that step with you, it's easier to take
the next step. So do it, regardless of whether or not it is going to succeed,
it is already a success because you took the step. We see success not in the
finished product, like the world sees it, we see success in the fact that we
are doing it, and doing it for God.
INTERVIEW WITH
. . . Mark Phillips, graduate of Pacific Union College, bachelor's degree in communications
What
is your experience and expertise that qualify you for what you're doing?
MP: I wrote
my first play in third grade. It was a stupid play, but my teacher let us perform
it. It was some political one with Jimmy Carter and all that kind of stuff.
It was just really bad. But she believed in me, and so I think that enabled
me later. I used to tap dance for my parents on the chimney. You know, the fireplace
where it's brick? That was my stage, and I'd perform there. And I had two older
brothers, so we were always doing little films. You know, we did an 8mm film,
we'd project it and watch it and stop motion—all those sort of things.
And then our parents got us a video camera when the video cameras came out.
We'd always make these home movies.
When I was in high
school, everybody knew me as the guy with the video camera. I did videos for
church, I did funny videos to bring in the holidays or at vacation time. I just
had this big sense of humor when I did my videos, you know, and that sort of
thing. I got interested in stand-up comedy but I've only really done it for
high schools and for events, and that sort of thing. I guess I really appreciate
comedy because, one thing about standup comedy, if you say something, don't
show the audience that you're embarrassed by it because they'll know it, and
then they won't respect you. I think that's really important—when you really
believe in something, to go after it, because they can sense whether or not
you're actually nervous up there. And it's very vulnerable type art, standup
comedy. If your jokes don't work, they don't laugh. If they're not laughing,
they're not having fun. . . .
When I was in college
I also wrote the musical "Esther" [with Ginger Kettering, now at Walla
Walla University]. Musicals were a big thing. But film has always been my real
goal in my life. I've always thought that it was the most powerful medium ever
since I was young, making little films with my brothers. . . .
You know, it was
funny. The year I was in film school, everybody that I was paying to give me
advice was saying, "Leave, and do it! 'Cause the fastest way you're going
to learn is to do it." So I moved back home to Reno, and worked on some
screenplays. And that's when I got called to come down and do the studio for
Parable Maker. So I left all my writing there. I was working on "Esther"
and two other screenplays at that time. I have a couple screenplays already
done.
We already
talked about why you got involved in Parable Maker. What are some of the things
that you feel you bring to this ministry?
MP: I think
it's telling a story. I'm very thorough. Again, I believe in a controlled environment
which is very important. A lot of people out there think that you can just bring
in somebody to capture your wedding, in a way that you want. They can't do that,
because the way that you want is not the way that they can understand it. No
two people see the same story alike. And understanding that, a director especially
has got to have, in working with other people that are working on the project,
the vision for this whole church with that [particular] story. Because only
you, as the director, can tell that vision, that story. And it's not about who's
right or wrong, it's not about who's over who. It's just that one person is
telling that story.
I think that what
I bring to Parable Maker is that ability to tell the story, to control a lot
of creative input, to recognize quotes that aren't regularly heard, and find
general ideas that would inspire an audience; and make sure that I incorporate
those in a way that's memorable. And I think that goes into the whole—Jesus
and His parables, He was a great communicator. He's somebody I look up to, a
lot! I look up to Jesus Christ.
There's a way you
can tell the story that is more memorable, that is more meaningful. It's the
execution, it's the way that it unfolds. And I learned that it's a lot like
an onion, that you unpeel it slowly, in layers. And there's a sophistication
to something even simple. And it's almost so simple that it's sophisticated.
I know that sounds crazy. But you can make it more difficult than it really
is. I've learned to simplify my storytelling. And what I bring to Parable Maker
is simplicity.
INTERVIEW WITH
. . . Edye Campos, graduate of Atlantic Union College, bachelor's degrees in theology
and social work, minor in sociology
How did you get started in media ministry?
EC: Ever
since I was a kid, I was brought up to follow in my family's footsteps: I've
got a litany of people in my family who are working in the church. When I was
a kid, I was going to be a pastor.
As kids, everyone
wants to be a fireman, nurse, or teacher. Not me! In fact, my mom says that
one of her memories of me when I was a kid, all my brothers would be playing
cops and robbers, or firemen, or cowboys and Indians, and my sisters would play
house, and I would basically take the trash can for a pulpit and put my Bible
on it and preach to everybody. [Laughter.]
Everybody has a
different thing to do. But from an early date I felt like what God had called
me to do is to be a minister, to be a pastor of a church. And that's what I
grew up thinking, that was my goal in life. It's why I went to college. And
I majored in three areas: social work, sociology, and theology. The reason was
that I felt those things would help me to be forceful in my ministry. Social
work is so important today. Our church, especially the Hispanic community, is
just so full of people who are immigrants, who need to be provided with services.
My whole background is not Hollywood. Unlike Mark, who basically was born with
a camera in his hand, this wasn't in my mind. And when I came out here to California
about four and a half, five years ago, I thought that I was going to do exactly
that line of work—ministry, whether it was social ministry or whether it
was as a pastor.
So what happened
was that I came here with that intention, and as I was out here, I had several
individuals come up to me and ask me if I had ever acted. I never quite understood
that, because I don't know if I give out an air of being a actor, or what. But
it was just kind of happening. It happened. And I got to the point where it
happened sort of repeatedly, and then I started to pray about it, saying "God,
this is kind of scary! It's freaking me out! I don't know exactly who it's coming
from. Lord, You need to help me understand." I was brought up in the Adventist
church—my dad is a pastor, my grandfather is a pastor . . . And we were
taught at an early age that Hollywood is evil, it's Babylon itself, you don't
go there. Yet here I've got these people who are giving me their business cards,
saying, "You need to consider acting."
As I'm praying
about it, I decided (and I say this a lot) I'd lay out the fleece. I said, "God,
this has to stop. If it's of You, it's going to persist. If it's not of You,
I need You to get rid of it, because You're confusing me, I feel confused."
So I laid out the fleece. I said, "God, it's got to stop tomorrow. If not,
then it needs to happen this way. I'm going to be in the mall, and I need someone
to come up to me and tell me exactly what to do."
Sure enough, the
next day I was in the mall and someone comes up to me and they say, "Have
you ever considered . . ." and they gave me their card.
I went home and
said, "OK, all right. I don't know how to do this, but if this is what
you want, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it."
EC: It was
difficult for me to go into acting. My family really didn't suport the idea,
it took a long time. When it first happened, my parents and I just couldn't
see eye to eye. It was just fight after fight, because they just couldn't see
it. Anyway, what happened is that while I was acting, I was doing commercials,
and I started basically to do some sitcoms, and started to do some shows that
are on prime time, stuff like that. And when I was starting to really establish
myself as an actor, I sensed God asking me to pull away, which threw me again
into confusion.
I'd finally come
to the point where I had embraced what God was wanting me to go into, what I
saw as a mission field in Hollywood. There were some people [in Hollywood]
that I thought were more Christian than many Seventh-day Adventists I know.
They taught me a lot about Christianity. Which told me that it's not just an
opportunity for us as Christians, it's also an opportunity for us as individuals,
because there's people there who are doing the same thing we do, that are doing
what we're trying to accomplish. I'm going off on a tangent here, but that's
when I came to understand that God was opening the doors to really educate me,
to open up my eyes to the fact that I needed to break out of the thinking that
I was in, and to not limit God, because we put Him into a picture frame, and
we don't let God grow out of that frame. That's just the way we are. Then there's
a moment when all of a sudden we are forced to see God differently. The moment
that happens, we come to a crisis because we're not used to seeing God as basically,
you know, the Great Storyteller. Or God as a person who's a rebel, who hangs
with the prostitutes and the tax collectors. Because that's not the God that
we're used to, it becomes very uncomfortable. So I think that God was trying
to take me through a process, trying to teach me not to limit Him.
So when I learned
that lesson, then I felt that God was asking me to pull away. I'm like, "Wait
a minute! I just got used to the fact that, you know, that I'm in the mission
field and this is what You want me to do." So I thought it was going to
be from an actor perspective, and at that same time that this was happening,
I had just a couple weeks before, had auditioned for a movie that I was really,
my agent had recommended to me. She had gotten me the audition and I went to
it. The day that I walked in, I had prayed and laid out the fleece, and I felt
like God was closing it for me—time to back away here, time to step out.
I once again laid the fleece, and I fasted. I did that, and I sensed that God
was telling me, "Yes, I need you to just step away." And I didn't
know why, but I knew that's what He wanted. I sensed it.
I went in, met
with my agent (who's an atheist), and I told her I was leaving. And at that
moment she looked at me and said, "You are insane! I've just gotten off
the phone with the people you auditioned for some weeks ago. They want you for
the star part. It's $300,000, it's only three months of work out in Indonesia.
. . . This is it! This is the breakthrough!"
I looked at her
and I said, "You didn't hear me. It's time for me to go."
And she's like,
"Idiot! You're insane, you'll never get a job here in Hollywood."
And she went off about that.
"Well,"
I told her, "I remember telling you when I first auditioned that I had
two conditions: 1) You have to give me the right, basically, to understand that
if I say no to a role, it's because I will not take it, and you can't push me;
and 2) That when I feel I need to stop, I need to stop.
She said that many
actors have told her that, then they get money thrown in their face and they
drop off their ideals by the wayside. I said, "Well, I understand, 'cause
I think most people would probably do that, but I don't function off the same
agenda, so I have to let this go." She and I parted ways and that's when
I came back home and I said, "OK, God."
That same day I
basically had a lunch appointment, and that lunch appointment, it turned out,
was with a guy who was working as an interim pastor for "Young and Restless"
which is at the Azure Hills Church, in Grand Terrace, California. He told me
that the church needed me and that I should get involved. And so, having no
place to go because I needed to move out of my place, I became a youth pastor
until I was called to Parable Maker.
What
do you bring to the ministry your currently involved in?
EC: Mark
and I do bring something different. Mark was born knowing that he was going
to do this. He just knew. I didn't. I think that also is so representative of
the way it is with most of us. Not everyone receives the same calling at the
same time. It wasn't until Paul was, you know, on his horse, that he got thrown
off and that God revealed to him truly what his mission in life was going
to be. But until that time he thought that he was doing the mission of
God. He's like, "No, buddy, you're working the wrong direction here. Here,
this is where it's at." Moses, the same thing—same thing. But it was
all preparation, because God still uses all that. So God has prepared me from
a completely different angle, but He's prepared me, nonetheless.
So what
do you see yourself bringing to the ministry?
EC: Charm.
[Laughter.] If someone asked me today I think my answer's different today than
in the past. And I think my true talent is recognizing how limited I truly am.
[Laughter.] No, I'm being very, very honest. The reason why is because I think
knowing who you are is probably one of the most powerful things, and one of
the most truly greatest challenges a person can get, is knowing what you can
do and what you can't, what you're good at and what you're not. And the reality
is that I'm not talented in that way. But because I realize that, then what
I've done is tried to basically wherever that person's talent is, basically
help them.
So you're
talented in helping others see their talents?
EC: Maybe.
I'll be honest with you and say that I'm still searching that out. I've never
had a passion for calling people and begging for money. I've never had a passion
for writing the scripts or stories. I've never had a passion for any of these
things. But I guess that's one of the other things, is that I'm just such a
passionate person about what I believe in. And I have the ability to basically
give people the vision, and help them to see the vision, to feel it, to express
it, and to buy into it. But one of the things that I hope that some day when
people look back I'm remembered because I loved people. . . .
I look like I stepped
off a Harley Davidson, or off a world wrestling federation rink, and yet, I
mean, I can't help but get emotional when I talk about these things. You know?
I think that one of the reasons why I'm emotional and passionate about reaching
people for Christ is because when you have lived the life that I've lived, so
different from other Christians out there, and you see that God literally has
done things in your life, you get a little emotional, you know? You get a little
overwhelmed by it.
_________________________
Kimberly Luste Maran is an assistant editor of the Adventist Review.
