Johnsson: From your perspective as General Conference president, what is the state of the Adventist Church today?
Paulsen: I see the church today as being full of life. We are growing, constantly faced with opportunities, and busy at work trying to match resources with opportunities. There are so many, many, many things out there. For example, in Russia at the moment a very special initiative has been started. For the past 10 years or so after Communism collapsed, the church had great opportunities for growth. Adventists used them well, but because they lacked both church buildings and pastoral care, they were in danger of losing many of these new members. So they have now gone into a deliberate consolidation process of trying to retain honest disciple build-up, to strengthen the Adventist identity in the community that we have. And this, I think, is a sign of both responsibility and life.

You are describing a church that is growing very fast, even exploding in terms of its numbers.
Yes. It took more than 100 years to reach the first million members. We added the last million in less than a year.

I am concerned, however, that we also be very deliberate in our efforts to make sure that those who join our church know what they have done. That whatever background they come from, there is a change of identity when they join our church. And that they know what it means to be a live participant member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

We are baptizing people by the thousands, but unless we have a church to put them in, when we come back nine months later we don't find them. Or they come in from a particular apostolic or Pentecostal tradition, and everything they bring with them into the church is of that identity, and unless there is a deliberate process of shaping, the church becomes shaped by these new elements.

So the challenges today are probably unique in our history.
I agree. There are places in the world where we have hardly any growth, and we look back to certain moments in the distant past when we had growth. But there are other parts of the world where the growth is beyond the capacity of the church to responsibly handle it.

Some people think that the General Conference can do anything if it really wants to. What is your perspective on the ability that the General Conference has to lead and make changes in the church?
Yes, I would accept that there are many things the General Conference can do. We probably have more resources or access to resources here from the world headquarters than the church has anywhere else. Where there is a crisis, the General Conference can be a real contributor to solve it. But it would be a grave mistake if we from the world headquarters were even to begin to think that we should micromanage the church around the world. The church now has so many cultural flavors, and the church must be allowed to display its colors and flavors where it is, without compromising that which is so comprehensive, unique, and common between all of us. Namely, our shared spiritual heritage, our shared bounties, and our belief in the future. Beyond that, the church is diverse around the world, multiple this and multiple that, and for that reason we have distributed leadership around the world. We want to support the leadership, but we want them to call the shots.

So just what is the General Conference's role-spiritual leadership only, or more than that?
More. Let me illustrate. Everyone is talking about strategic planning, and that is important. For any organism that is alive, that is serving multiple communities and multiple needs, you develop a plan for how you're going to balance it all. And all of the divisions around the world, the unions, and most institutions have some clearly defined strategic plans for what they want to do.

The General Conference also needs a strategic plan. But that strategic plan is defined more in terms of certain key values rather than a defined implementation line that must be adopted by the huge variety of organizations that serve around the world. We have defined three key values that are important in defining what we are, what our agenda looks like, what we will support, and what we will pursue.

These values are, I think, profoundly Adventist. They are not something new. The first value is growth, witness, evangelism. This is why we are here. One hundred fifty years ago this church was commissioned with a certain mission, and we are very deliberate about it.

The second value is unity. God gave to this church a unique structure. We are one body around the world. But in a rapidly growing church, unity does not take care of itself. It needs very careful, disciplined, determined attention.

The third value is the quality of life inside the church. These are value blocks, value units that encompass everything that we have as a church family, but they don't set the micromanagerial details that the world church has to adhere to. My colleagues here in all the departments of the General Conference have their role, and I am saying to them, "Please carry on with your assignment. But when the day is over, pause and ask yourself: 'Did I also look after these things?'" So in this way the values become blended, filtered into all the thinking and planning. They also drive the budget.

There seems to have been a lot of thought given to these values, with significant breaking down into subpoints. There's reference not only to personal growth but to the growth of congregations, impact on the community at large, the perception of the public, and so on. I take it that there was quite a process leading up to the finalizing of these values?
Yes, there was a lot of consultation. Many of us did a lot of praying, I think there is a guidance by the Spirit that comes into it, and then it seems to flow very naturally. When you step back from slogans and from thinking of words and phrases, when you step back from that and you say to yourself, "What is the Adventist Church, really? What are we about?" these three elements quickly rise to the surface by themselves. It's the looking after them that doesn't happen by itself. That we have to do also.

Could I say something more about unity? I think if there is anything that comes naturally, it is our assertion of our own freedom, our own rights, our own "Don't tell me what to do." But in a community like the church there is another side to the rights and the health of the community. That is where you constantly recognize that you are part of a body that is much larger than yourself, that as an individual you need to defer to the rights of the larger body of the church as a whole. It is a wonderful biblical concept to be willing to forgo your rights in the interest of the love of the body or the larger community. I think it is profoundly Christian to do that.

As a church we are financially intermarried around the world; we are linked together in terms of how we define our doctrines; we have a commonChurch Manual; we have a common policy book. There are so many things that are common. They are our visible elements of linkage, but above and beyond that there is a constant, deliberate effort to make sure, to remind ourselves, that what I do in America, for instance, affects the church in Asia. And decisions I make for myself in California have profound impact even in Africa.

We already have countries where we have a million members, and we can expect the 1 million to become 2 million and then 5 million. The danger has to become greater with such developments-that there could develop national churches, and our unity gradually be lost. I am sure this must be a concern to you.
Yes, it is. But I don't think it has to follow. It demands a position, particularly a General Conference position, that we recognize that a living organism such as our body, our family, our church, must have a fair amount of dexterity to it also. That people need to rediscover obedience to God in their own culture where they are. And Adventism is defined not in a frozen, static way that looks alike wherever I look around the world. It has these differences and these cultures. When the church witnesses in Africa it will do so differently than when it witnesses in Belgium or in a city here in North America or in France or South America. There will be these differences. There must be. There is nothing vague or uncertain or mystical about what is the identity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. But at the same time the core elements, those that bind us together, allow the church to be its natural self in its own culture. It's only when you become rigid and when you insist on sameness, also with respect to the guard you put around yourself, that it becomes strained and difficult to go together.

These values that have been developed and voted are almost like a vision of the church-what you or I would like the church to be. But how do we move from voting something to having it realized?
There is no easy answer to that, because it is not a defined one, two, three steps that will accomplish this. It happens when the church all around the world is acquainted with what is meant by this. It understands that, it looks at that and says: "Yes, these are values that describe what is important to me here in my country, in my city, in my situation. They capture the things for which I will even die." I am very optimistic about these values being understood and accepted, simply because they are not new. They simply define what is core Adventism, or core Adventist values, for the church at any time. It's inconceivable to me that the Seventh-day Adventist Church could ever at any time define itself and these three would not come to the front.

This sounds quite different from a program that the General Conference has developed that you now want the whole world to implement.
This is not a program. No, I think the best word to use is simply the one we've been using time and again now. This is the identification of values that we want the church to carefully nurture, look after, and build into their own lives.

Maybe there's something more I ought to say about quality of life. One aspect of it involves certain concrete values of everyday life, conduct, the choices we make. But then there is another aspect that to me is also very important, one that for a long time I have had strong feelings about. And that is I want this church to be not only right, but also a good, warm community to live in. I want a stranger to be able to walk in off the street, to sit for an hour in an Adventist congregation and walk out and say "I'd like to go back." I want our members in any congregation to exude the sort of warmth and appeal that can make people from battle-hardened experiences find that they are loved, they are wanted, that the church exists for them. I don't want the church to be a church of successful professionals, but a healing community, a warm and friendly body. When we look at the fruits of the Spirit, they all find their meaning in relationships.

Wouldn't it be good if these values could get right down to the life and the level of the local congregations?
I agree with you. I think that that is where they ultimately belong. The local church is where we all find our common place. You and I as well, every week. This is where these values must be understood and must be exercised. Every time I give an offering, every time I pray for every part of the world, I bring myself into the life of the church somewhere else.

What is the role of other church leaders regarding these values?
The General Conference is giving the creative spark to start us off, the note of inspiration. I think first and foremost journals such as the Adventist Review and other communications from Adventists that go out-and there are several-will carry them. But I am hopeful that at meetings of workers and ministers church leaders at various levels will filter these elements and specifically identify them in the activities, planning, and programs. I think that the pastor must seek these values and allow them to be built into their own preaching ministry and congregation. Only then will it happen. But I am very optimistic that if this is of God, it will surely happen.

These values are strategic issues for the church, but they have to be followed by specific plans. Do you see the General Conference getting involved in any strategic plans?
To some extent I do. The definition of these values is primary, but in addition we have many initiatives, many activities that are being engaged in from the General Conference.

All of them are related to the growth we are going through. There was a time when you defined the structures that would serve your church when you had 1 million members, but are these adequate for a church of about 25 million more? At this point just in Africa alone we have 41/2 million members. In another four or five years from now, if the Lord has not returned, we are probably going to have close to 10 million members there.

We have also set up a commission to deal with higher education on a worldwide basis. Governments in a number of countries are coming to us and asking, "Look, what can you provide in terms of higher education for our youth?" They are more than willing to give us a charter if we are willing to take on the responsibility of developing and providing the programs. This places an enormous pressure on our church. Other areas where we have commissions and initiatives are the 10/40 window, leadership training, the remuneration structures of the world church, the Council on Evangelism and Witness, and so on.

Maybe we could discuss these areas another time?
I would be glad to do so.

You have now been General Conference president for several years. How do you feel about the job?
I like what I'm doing. I wake up in the morning usually very early. I get up and do some reading and something at the house. But I look forward to getting to the office every day that I's in town. The days are full. There are a lot of activities, but I find a lot of fulfillment in the challenges.

What is the toughest part of your job?
It's when I deal with people and I either have to take a stand or have to make a statement that will be a disappointment to somebody who had hoped for something else. To deal with people in that kind of situation is probably the hardest. At the same time it's the same people that give me the greatest joy.

A final question. We have had inquiries from people who say, "Why don't you give us any information about Elder Paulsen's son? We are praying for him." This is part of your private life but many, many people are interested.
A year ago our son had an accident that almost took his life. It's a miracle that he even survived the fall. But he was damaged. He was in a coma for two weeks. I sat at his bedside those two weeks, telling him stories from his childhood and reminding him of things that were part of his earlier life. When he came out of the coma he was paralyzed on the left side and couldn't speak.

The accident happened in Germany, and we flew him back to Norway, where he lived before in the Oslo area. And he is under the health-care system that is there. A long period, many months, of rehabilitation started. He is now able to walk with the help of a stick. He is a tall boy, six feet six inches. He's a fairly thin, tall fellow-he looks like a stick himself. But he walks with the help of a stick and is now able to speak freely. He has some vacant spots in his memory, and because of some damage he also has a learning curve ahead of him with regard to matters that require judgment. That is a growing thing, but we are seeing signs of progress all the time. Praise the Lord for it.

While he was still in the hospital I said to him, "You know, wherever I travel there are people whom I have never met, whom you've never met, who come and say to me, 'We are praying for your son.' There are tens of thousands of people who have been praying for you." And he said to me, "Dad, you thank them." So maybe I can express that to the people.

I expect that it will take another year or two before his rehabilitation process has come far enough for us to be able to see how the future will turn out. But there are so many who've carried him in their prayers, who have carried Kari and me. It's been hard on us, but it's at times like these that you discover the strength of love, the strength of friends, the strength of prayer.

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During 2002 a series of reports in the Adventist Review will take up the various commissions and initiatives that the General Conference has set up.